Kotor 2 Handmaiden Female
The depiction of women (particularly Handmaiden) was raised in the General Discussion forum. I wanted to post this comment, but as it contains spoilers, I put it here instead.The women of Kotor 2 are stereotyped. It's not deeply offensive (to me), just a bit disappointing.The handmaiden's naked fighting is silly.
Can you imagine a male character doing the same? Like, say, in the Mandalorians' battle circle? They weren't naked.
And don't say it's because in the Mandalorians' culture they wear armour. It's the developers' decision to include clothed males and naked females that shows gender descrimination.Visas was by far the more worrying case. A character is shown as a broken wreck, without any will or sense of self, and of course she's female. And utterly devoted to a male master (I assume Darth Nihilus is male, although correct me if I'm wrong). And then willing to surrender herself sexually to the male Exile, perhaps the female Exile too.Kreia is a manipulative witch, lying and cheating from the shadows. And twice we see her defeated by Darth Sion in open combat.
This suggests that males are dominant, women are subordinated, and can only exercise power through manipulation. Again, a clear gender stereotype. And frigid of course, as all powerful women are. I do love the way the voice actress says 'indignities', though.This kind of thing is unavoidable when almost all game developers, and a clear majority of players, are male. Obsidian aren't being nasty or deliberately discriminatory, just careless. And the problem is very widespread (the Star Wars films are at least as bad, as is most of the output of Hollywood).
Yeah, I do agree it's an unfortunate thing. Although I'm a female gamer and am playing a female Exile, and I am glad the exile doesn't fall under the stereotype. (plus I don't have the Handmaiden so I don't have to worry about any naked fighting:D ) What's so great about choosing what the exile says is that you get to determine her strengths and weaknesses, so she is by no means a stereotypical woman, and I love that about the game.To some degree, the male characters are also stereotyped and have their own weaknesses. Although you'll never see them fight naked unless you force them to disrobeDisciple (from at least what little I've noted of him so far) seems like the loyal servant type, as does Bao-dur, and from what I gather Atton loves you pretty deeply and would die for you, so perhaps he's not so unlike Visas, just handled differently.
Though he hides it (mostly) well, he's also a wreck with no real sense of self.Obviously the females still have more negative qualities in comparison, but just attempting to be a slight devil's advocate here.:'. The handmaiden's naked fighting is silly. Can you imagine a male character doing the same? Like, say, in the Mandalorians' battle circle? They weren't naked. And don't say it's because in the Mandalorians' culture they wear armour. It's the developers' decision to include clothed males and naked females that shows gender descrimination.Umm.
This may just be my interpretation, but something atton says to her implies that it's a little more than that. Pretty much he implies that he knows echani ettiquette, and implies that the lack of clothing is not part of it, thus that she is deliberatly stripping down, and stripping down the exile. Admittedly, it's odd, but it seems to be an attempt at seduction. Maybe you could see that as demeaning, but look at it from another way, this is a woman who has no need of a man to defend her, so isn't conforming to the stereotype of 'i'm weak, come here you big strong man and protect me.' I don't knowmuch about seduction, so I can't say too much more on this. Visas was by far the more worrying case. A character is shown as a broken wreck, without any will or sense of self, and of course she's female.
And utterly devoted to a male master (I assume Darth Nihilus is male, although correct me if I'm wrong). And then willing to surrender herself sexually to the male Exile, perhaps the female Exile too.I interpret that as less of a 'broken woman' and more of a 'broken person of whatever gender.' To me the emphasis is on the being subordinate to the will, not the gender issue.
It's about the person, their spirit, mind and will, not what organs the person has. Kreia is a manipulative witch, lying and cheating from the shadows. And twice we see her defeated by Darth Sion in open combat. This suggests that males are dominant, women are subordinated, and can only exercise power through manipulation. Again, a clear gender stereotype.
Kotor 2 Handmaiden Jedi
And frigid of course, as all powerful women are. I do love the way the voice actress says 'indignities', though.This kind of thing is unavoidable when almost all game developers, and a clear majority of players, are male.
Obsidian aren't being nasty or deliberately discriminatory, just careless. And the problem is very widespread (the Star Wars films are at least as bad, as is most of the output of Hollywood).Kreia is. Darth Treya, Dark Lord of Betrayal.Such tactics are stock in trade of that kind of person. Out and Out combat prowess isn't. Leave that to people like Sion or Maul. Most of what Kreia does, I could see done by a male equivalent with no differences. Which leaves it down to a 50/50 choice.
Although you're also tapping into the crone/wise woman archetypes, which are by no means demeaning or derogratry to women (ask any pagan.)I don't personally see that gender politics has any need to be brought in here. No hangups, except what you bring with you. Look at the characters in terms of powers and personalities, not as mere gender ciphers. Would you suggest Atris had 'handmen' rather than women?Would very much appreciate that, ShadowPaladin. I'm not very familiar with EU.It just seemed a little odd, to me. However, from some of the things Atris says, I assume you can deduce that she felt attracted to the Exile.
If the Exile is male, she may no longer think males are trustworthy. If female.well.she may just like being surrounded by females.
HehAltogether, the only part that really made me roll my eyes was the dancing outfit. That, however, was completely optional as a quest, and mostly because my character's waist looked painfully too small. I mean, just plain unnatural.
She looks much better in armor or Jedi robes, IMHO.ponders.I reloaded and pretended it didn't happen. I can wait longer for her lightsaber.
Would very much appreciate that, ShadowPaladin. I'm not very familiar with EU.It just seemed a little odd, to me. However, from some of the things Atris says, I assume you can deduce that she felt attracted to the Exile. If the Exile is male, she may no longer think males are trustworthy.
If female.well.she may just like being surrounded by females. HehAltogether, the only part that really made me roll my eyes was the dancing outfit. That, however, was completely optional as a quest, and mostly because my character's waist looked painfully too small. I mean, just plain unnatural.
She looks much better in armor or Jedi robes, IMHO.ponders.I reloaded and pretended it didn't happen. I can wait longer for her lightsaber. Prediction: 'what the HELL, you want every female character to be a big ugly flannel-wearing dyke?' Prediction: 'So what you're lucky there were even female characters who were remotely competent in the game in real life women are basically useless.'
Prediction: 'Handmaiden is EMPOWERED because she chooses to fight naked, stop being so REPRESSED, you CHRISTIAN.' Prediction: 'Do we have to make EVERYTHING SO PC NOW?' I do agree that this stuff was mostly careless and not actively skeezy, though I really could've done without Mira's Annahesque excuse for her +5 AC, 5 DR/physical handkerchief. Didn't mind Kreia so much - manipulation is a cringeworthy female stereotype, yes, but as mentioned elsewhere she's echoing the Emperor. It's the fact that she's repeatedly attacked for being a 'manipulative witch' that's a tad obnoxious.And. Y'know, even though it wasn't supposed to be.that.
kind of love, 'I killed her because I loved her' is one of the top two most disturbing lines uttered by a romanceable guy in a game. But hey, Mira's idea of romance is vaguely psychotic too, so I guess it's, uh, fair. The Exile and Handmaiden aren't naked when they fight, as this would have increased the rating of the game unnecessarily. They're in their underwear, though the dialogue refers to their not wearing clothes. But that's not the point.
Before you played the game, if someone had said 'There's a character who will only fight you in their underwear, do you think it's a man or a women?' , would it have been hard to guess? This is a gender stereotype that is being reinforced in the game.And then there's the dancing costume (yes, I'd forgotten about that, thanks).
And the Twilek dancer on Telos that you can 'enslave', and so on. This is the nature of much gender discrimination in the modern world. Any individual case can be dismissed, but taken together, then the pattern is disturbing.
Well it's been a while, but the time has come. At last SW Kotor 2 Romances the remastered Special Edition is here.
What first was a project to fix up the graphics and make the characters look more like they are from the game, soon became a complete overhaul of new stuff jam-packed into the exact same movie. That's right, no major changes to the story lines, but many little changes that guarantee you'll be watching it more than once or at least making extensive use of the pause button. Linda lael miller.
For those of you who haven't seen it, go do so for plot details and to laugh at how inferior it is to the special edition.Oh, and leave reviews and vote fairly now. I know it isn't perfect, so lots of constructive criticism will ensue I get off my ass and improve it rather than give up in frustration.
DAMN YOU LUCAS ARTS.As with many other people who haved played Kotor 2, I share your sentiment.While the dating sort of thing takes a back seat in games not entirely purposed around such things, its a part of roleplay and adds depth to the game, there were many other things about Kotor 2 that just seemed half baked. Levels with mysterious unopening doorways and quests that seemed like they should be there, but just weren't.
Kotor 2 was extracted from the oven too hastily and the Kotor fans suffered because of it. Loved it!It's simplicity was so nice, you didn't need to do anything over the top, and make your flash the greatest one ever, it was a nice refresher. Even if some people complain about you barely using any flash at all just goes to show their ignorance. I felt that the music playing in the background, and the explanations to some of the scenes, were all this really needed, and for that I thank you. I have always loved both KOTOR and KOTOR Sith Lords and have been desperate to find a flash for either of them, of which you have provided, thank you. Hmm.This is actually my favorite KOTOR animation on here.
Only problem was you left out Fem Exile. But ehh.I don't really care.
It's still pretty good. My fav part: Kreia getting killed by the lightsaber. Bonsu points on that, since I hate her so.By the way, to dartcock, the only Bioware games where you can 'bang' anyone, is Mass Effect, and that one new fantasy game they made.forgot the name. But I know you can have sex on it.Anyway, I also liked how you picked my personal favorite head for Male Revan. The guy with the buzzed head, hair under his mouth and small scar. He looks distinctly like a bad/good guy in my opinion.Also, I always found it wierd about the relationship between Carth and Fem Revan. Isn't his son HER age?!
I mean, Revan, either gender, is supposed to be 25 in the game. (If your asking how I know that, I read it on KOTOR.com.) And Carth's son, (whom you meet in a quest) is like.18-20. OO?!Well, that's all I have to say about it.
I really enjoyed your flash movie and look forward to your future ones. Particularily if they involve KOTOR, KOTOR 2, or any Star Wars material whatsoever.(Also I went to Anime Crossroads a couple days ago! Responds:I've said this so many times, the female exile had fine choices, and it wouldn't have fit the song. It is synced to the actions, you know.He was THE Revan, as far as I'm concerned. It just works out somehow. XDWell perhaps Carth had his son in his teens. That would still mean he'd be in his early forties.Why thank you.
I have just completed my current latest flash, so I'll take a few weeks off then perhaps do another Star Wars movie. Give me a shout if you have any ideas for a plot.